You are currently viewing Ladi Williams: My regret is that our father didn’t put his house in order before he passed on
Share this story

Since the passing on of the legendary Chief FRA Williams over nine years ago, his four sons have been locked in a war of attrition or maybe “misunderstanding” as Chief Ladi Williams, eldest son of the late legal icon prefers to call it. The family is torn apart on how best to constitute and protect the estate of their father. His Will bequeathed his estate to his eldest two sons, Ladi and Kayode, but the Will was written in the 50s before his two youngest sons Tokunbo and Folarin were born. While the authenticity of the will is not in dispute, the core of the dispute is that the other sons argue there was an agreement that any dispute between them should be resolved through arbitration. The intervention of the courts, according to him, has only served to ignite fire where there was none, complicating matters even more, instead of resolving them.

In this no-holds-barred interview with  Shaka Momodu, Ladi Williams blames the court for leaving its sphere of adjudication to delve into the sphere of imagination and sentimentalism. He also spoke about his growing up, what he misses about his father, his regrets, his happiest moments, and more

What is the status of the dispute over the estate of your father?

We went to court to probate the will of Chief FRA Williams, SAN. The probate registrar wrote to us to say that he had found our father’s will. Thereafter the court action that we filed before, in which we were trying to get administrators appointed without a will, was then withdrawn by filing what is called a notice of discontinuance. On the basis that the probate registrar had written to us that they had recovered our father’s will and that we should come for the reading. Two of us went even though four of us were invited. After the reading of the will, that is when we then sought to withdraw that action and the court then dismissed the action-seeking appointment of administrators. Because until the law is changed, if you don’t have administrators or executors,  then you cannot distribute the property of a deceased person.

So we then brought this present action before the probate court, seeking to probate the Will of Chief FRA Williams SAN. But my two younger brothers brought a motion saying that we should refer the matter to arbitration. The High Court however said that this is not a matter that can be referred to an arbitrator because an arbitrator cannot admit a Will to probate. An arbitrator cannot appoint executors and trustees. An arbitrator cannot vacate a caveat. That it is only the high court that can do so. They then appealed to the Court of Appeal and the Court of Appeal looked at the appeal and said,  it is only the arbitrator that can admit the will to probate. And I think it is wrong. That it is only the arbitrator who can vacate a caveat And I think they are wrong on that also.  And it is only the arbitrator who can appoint administrators and executors. And I think they are also wrong on this. They said because we have signed an agreement to the extent that any dispute should be resolved by Arbitration. Now, the question is, if we go before the Arbitrator, the arbitrator will want to know first of all what the dispute is.

The Court of Appeal has not said what the dispute is. They just said go to arbitration. And we said that the Court of Appeal should not decline jurisdiction and refer it to another court, which is the arbitral court because what we are trying to do is not to distribute property at this stage, which is very important to note. We need to appoint administrators or executors before we can even start talking about sharing. They now brought a document which they said has revoked the will. That document being a testamentary instrument ought to have been registered at the probate registry which was not done. We said you cannot use such a document because it is not admissible in law. Even though it is a private document, it is a document that ought to be registered at the probate registry. The Court of Appeal now said that is not the issue.

Advertisements

The issue is that you have signed an agreement to resolve all your disputes by going to arbitration. But we are saying that this kind of dispute is not one that arbitration can resolve because we are not fighting about the property. Let us, first of all, have the estate duly constituted because it is only the estate that can distribute the assets of a deceased person. At the end of the day, to my shock, the Court of Appeal then went into something which had nothing to do with what we came to court for. They forgot that what we came to court for was simply to probate the will and once the will is probated, I as the eldest can now say boys we have the estate constituted and we now have executors, so let us work things out. Let us set aside a certain percentage for the Law School which was very dear to my father’s heart in those days. Because we are all alright, let us look at the orphanage since our mother was an orphan and her own mother died when she was barely two years old and her father when she was just a teenager. So, notwithstanding whatever the Will says.

That is the position of myself and my immediate younger brother, Kayode. Assets, liabilities, and obligations of my late father – let us sit down and divide it into four equal parts. None of us was disinherited and if there is such a document disinheriting any of us then produce it. Even if there is such a document that gives everything to one of us, the old man has gone and we are four brothers. We will sit down and resolve it. But unfortunately, there are fifth columnists who are profiting from what I call a misunderstanding. They will take one story from me to the other side and take another from the other side and bring it to me because they are profiting from it. These are the people that I call leaches because they cannot stand on their own.

Advertisements

The place you are seeing here does not belong to my father (referring to his Chambers). My father would have been dead 10 years next year. I am not saying I am a billionaire.   I don’t have an oil bloc, but I am reasonably comfortable and I have friends who will always come to my assistance whenever I need it from time to time.

So the Court of Appeal got it totally wrong. Telling us we are running after the mundane riches of our father and so on and so forth. They got it totally wrong because we are not seeking to distribute the assets. We are seeking to probate the will and set up the estate that will be vested with legal and equitable powers to distribute. If we have the estate today and I say look boys, I don’t want anything other than that we should cooperate. You can share the estate. It is not the business of the court if I so decide. The court cannot even distribute for us. It has no right to do that. But for some reason or because the estate is so vast, we are looking at assets worth over N20 billion – looking at that they were thinking that aah! We have to send them to an arbitrator to decide for them. That is not what we are seeking. Without being too legalistic, you look at the claim to see what the claimant is seeking.

Advertisements
dukes-crunchies

And what the claimant here is seeking is essentially to probate the will. To have the estate constituted, have the caveat vacated, and appoint executors. But the problem is the Law. The law does not give the arbitrator such powers. If the Court of Appeal says we should go to arbitration, okay, we go to arbitration.

Then claim one or point one; is to probate the will. Claim two is to validate the will. Claim three is to set up the estate. Claim four is to have the executors in place. When that is done we can now talk about who should get this and that, even though the names of the other two are not in the will. They are never the less our brothers. So there is nothing stopping us from saying that maybe our father forgot because he has never disowned any one of us. But somehow the court managed to put fire where there shouldn’t be any. The court has managed to create more problems for us.

Highly educated people such as Akintola Williams who is our uncle, Ernest Shonekan whose grandmother was a member of the Williams family who would have intervened, the court has now made it very difficult for these gentlemen to do so because the court has said, go to arbitration. But these gentlemen want to help us settle it. If we go before these men, are we not in contempt of court? Because the court has said we should go to arbitration and we say no it is not a matter of the arbitration. That is the problem that has been created by the Court of Appeal because we don’t want to fight anymore but the Court of Appeal has compelled us. If we don’t obey that is disobedience of a court order and has that not complicated matters for us? That is why we now have to go to the Supreme Court for it to say if these people want to discuss this problem with their uncles let them. Don’t let them go to jail for doing so. So, that is the position as it is now.

Where has this whole misunderstanding as you prefer to call it, left your relationship with your brothers?

Advertisements

Well, the truth is that even before our parents died because of the big gap in age, we didn’t use to relate much. We don’t have the same friends. I am 68 at the youngest is about 55 which is a gap of 13 years. In 1960 when I was at Kings College Lagos in Form One he was one year old, so how can we have the same friends. So we don’t even normally go to each other’s houses. I think Tokunbo was last in this house 9 years ago. Even before the misunderstanding,  my third brother Folarin was last in this house 25 years ago. So, we normally meet at Ilupeju. When I was married in 1972, they were in between primary and secondary schools, and then the court ordered us to go and become friends and live in harmony. Even husband and wife you can’t order them to go and live in harmony.

A lot of people are baffled because you all came from one mother, if you guys were from different mothers it might have easily explained a situation like this. How did things come to this?

Advertisements

Well, as I have said, unfortunately, it is the court that has caused it to come to this. Because now they have virtually foreclosed the possibility of senior members of the family intervening in the matter and to my mind, it is not about sharing the property. It is about setting up the estate of our late father. Once it is set up and if we must share, then we do it in accordance with what I have outlined.

So do your brothers interact with each other at all?

Advertisements
Lennox Mall

What I am saying is that I have my practice in Victoria Island which is convenient for me because I live on the premises. When I am going to the office unless I am going to court, there is no traffic jam. At 68, my father at my age had his office and lived on the same premises where he worked, died, and was buried. So what will make me drive from Lagos Island to Ilupeju and back was him. I could only do it for him daily when he was alive. I did it for him because he was my father and I would go the extra mile for him. So there was nowhere else for us to interact only maybe there was a family wedding or function, maybe. Phone calls are only when there is anything to discuss at all. So there are really no phone calls.

Some will say you are the eldest why don’t you call your younger ones sit down and…..?

Advertisements

To say what?

To talk and……

Advertisements
effex

About what?

Just brotherly talk

In our culture, it is the head that wags the tail. The tail does not wag the head. I think that is where I would leave that. I cannot be leaving my house to my younger brothers’ houses to go and look for them because they are the ones that are supposed to be looking for me and they don’t do that and I cannot compel anybody to look for me.

I get your take that you are the eldest and they should come to you but is there anything wrong with you calling them and saying let’s resolve this?

Advertisements

There is nothing wrong with that but naturally, I would expect that they accept the fact that after my father passed on, I became the head of the family and no one else can be. No matter how close any other relations may be. They would have to accept that fact.

Are they disputing it?

No, they are not disputing it but this particular relation thinks that because my parents brought her up, therefore she should be, but it’s not possible.

The impression one gets is that there is a really wide gulf between you and your brothers because there is little communication of any nature?

As I said before, there is my immediate younger brother Kayode who I am two years seven months older than and we are close in the sense that we are of similar age. We were in England together although I left before him. We lived together during a vacation in England. We attended the same tutorial college even though not at the same time. But the others were so much younger. By 1971, when I already had my LLB, one of my youngest brothers was just over 10 years old. So for example, if at all I had the affinity for nightclubs, am I going to take along a 10-year-old. Again our friends were totally different. Some of my friends have been friends since before they were born. People like the late Alex Ibru, Ambassador Tokunbo Awolowo Dosunmu, people like Segun Olumofin who is also a lawyer, and on and on. Those younger ones were not even born then. So I think people should have their children one year apart because when you have a situation where there is a 10-year gap and over it is different (laughs).

Has this spilled over to affect the relationship between your children and their children?

I believe that they are in touch but I don’t interfere in what my children do. But I believe they are in touch and they are talking but I know that this information must not leak to some fifth columnists who will be very upset if they hear that the grandchildren are at least friends. I believe they are in touch and I am happy about that.

What will it take to resolve this once and for all?

First of all, we would have to get rid of the unfortunate judgment of the Court of Appeal which pointed to our background as if we were scrounging and then sharing food which is absolutely false. These are people who learned as they may be, do not know us. I am older than virtually all of them and I became a lawyer before any of them. So how can they be talking about me and my brothers and my parents sharing food? Once the court of law leaves the sphere of adjudication and goes into the sphere of imagination and sentimentalism then they are not doing the judiciary any good. That is why respectable elder statesmen like Chief Clark and up-and-coming young men like Peterside are speaking the same language which is their concern for the integrity of our Judiciary. It is not a good image for the judiciary to be saying that remember when you used to share food. We will now sit down and work things out because this is not about sharing of money or estate.

And you are confirming to us that there was no other will?

Yes, there was no other Will or codicil which is an addition or subtraction to it. The real issue here is that we have to put an estate in place. Once that is done, as I have told them and they know my position, that assets, liabilities, and obligations because I know my father had certain obligations which he was doing and he would like to be continued after he had passed on especially charitable work in the legal profession. For instance, let us encourage students who have the brains but don’t have the financial power to achieve their ambitions.

What is happening to the assets and estate now with no resolution in sight yet?

Well, everybody is just doing whatever they like with it. Those who have hands-on shares have been selling shares. Those who have hands-on property have been doing anyhow they like with it. I am guilty of it as well because the court refused to grant my motion that the estate should be protected. In fact, the High Court refused to take that motion. So everybody is just doing what he likes. Whatever you can grab you do what you like with it. It is just that I want things to be properly done otherwise if I withdraw the case tomorrow I don’t lose anything.

At the end of it will everybody come to account for what he has taken?

I believe so because of our upbringing. Be that as it may, by the time we finish at the Supreme Court, there would be nothing left, absolutely nothing so there would be no issue. We would have just been full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

How soon is this move to the Supreme Court?

Well, the Court of Appeal has given us leave to appeal on grounds of fact and mixed law and I believe by now my office would have filed the appeal because I have been abroad. It is just to let the court know that as far as we are concerned this is not a matter for arbitration. We want to probate the will and set up the estate.

And are the four brothers united on this?

No, we are not

What if the Supreme Court now directs you to follow the Appeal Court’s decision?

I was the one who filed the action and I can also withdraw the action. If the Supreme Court says in their wisdom that we should go to arbitration and we will give the power to the arbitrator to probate the will, vacate the caveat, constitute the estate and appoint executors, If the Supreme Court has such powers and they say so, then so be it. But I doubt that the Supreme Court will claim such powers because they are not legislators.

Would it be the first time?

I don’t think they have the legislative powers

What has happened to your father’s chambers?

Up till now I have not seen the writing and it wasn’t until we got to court it turned out not to be true but what they told us is that my father told them that he didn’t want me, my two children, who practiced law with him when he was alive and Kayode’s two children who read law and practiced with him to have anything to do with the chambers. And I said but our father was Copus Mentis which means of sound mind, how come he didn’t tell us? So I said if he said so, show us the document where he stated it and up till today we have not seen that document. And I don’t think such a document exists. But for the sake of peace, we left and I came here and continued to do the only thing I know how to do best. Up till now it is just word of mouth because they have not shown me any document to that effect. I know my father and I have even shown you a photograph I took with him 10 days before he died.

Also, a lady from your newspaper even interviewed him, I think it was Funke Aboyade and she quoted him in that interview where he stated that one of the happiest days of his life was when his granddaughter, that is my daughter was called to the Bar because his own father did not have that same opportunity where his granddaughter or grandson became a lawyer in his lifetime and practiced with him. So, how can he now turn round and say he doesn’t want his granddaughter to have anything to do with the law firm.

We found out that it is not true. So up till today, I have challenged them that this document that you are talking about, where is it? File it in court. There is no such document. So when we went to see Justice Eso he told us that the document exists that if the document didn’t exist they wouldn’t say it exists. So when I now saw Chief Justice Kayode Eso on a one-on-one basis, he then responded angrily by asking  ‘Are you trying to disagree with me? I am your father’s age. If the document does not exist they wouldn’t say so?’ then I said ‘But my lord have you seen the document?’ He said ‘No, I don’t have to see it?’ I said ‘I am sorry sir, don’t be angry. I won’t accept what they are saying until I see a document to prove it.

He asked me ‘Are you telling me that I am lying?’ I said ‘my lord, how can I say so? I was not brought up that way’. All I am saying is that I doubt what my brothers told you and you yourself say you have not seen it. So, I think I am on a strong wicket if I suggest that the document does not exist, it exists only in their imagination. So that was how I left and I am happy that I did. So now I can leave this place to my daughter and my son and from the little you have seen of this place you can say it is not bad (laughs). This one is not contestable this is my sweat.

How was your relationship with your father before he died?

You saw the photograph, didn’t you? Tell me what you saw in the photograph. Where was my father’s arm? It was on my shoulder. Was he crying or smiling? He was smiling. My other brother who is the youngest one was standing at the back. Why didn’t he sit with us? In Yoruba land, it is not done. I cannot be seated with my father and he too says he wants to sit. It is not possible. He has to stand. So you saw a man with his arm around me and smiling at his death bed virtually. I am even happy that I kept that photograph because of the nonsense some people were saying. From your own conclusion will you say there was anything amiss? If there was anything amiss would I travel from Lagos to London to go and see him? And even if I did, will he welcome me? I think that is sufficient to answer your question.

What was growing up like under him?

Again, unlike what the Court of Appeal said that we were sharing food from the same plate. It was not like that. We were sons of ministers. Under Awolowo my father was the second most powerful man in Western Nigeria in those days. You can ask anybody that knows. We led a comfortable and sumptuous life. We used to be accompanied to school by at least one policeman. We ate as much as we liked. There was no question of sharing food. There was nothing like that. We had a huge plateful to ourselves. The Court of Appeal said: ‘Let the parties concerned reflect on their childhood years when they gathered together around the table with mama and papa in attendance sharing the same food and water. Now with this altercation and bitterness over mundane riches built up by their deceased fathers. The question for them to answer is that what papa and mama will say if they were alive. My admonition is to think, think, and again I say think. All the parties in this appeal are directed to work in harmony towards achieving the said goal’.

After that, I asked myself is this law? And what has this got to do with going to court? What has this got to do with probating the Will? How else can we ask for an estate to be set up other than going to court?

All this talk about sharing food from the same plate, we were never poor at all by any stroke of the imagination. We were at one time sons of lawyers, sons of a Queen’s Counsel. The first Queens Counsel in British West Africa along with Chief H.O Davies. So we did not have to share food like that. So I don’t know who told the Court of Appeal such stories and as you must have observed, is that not sentiment? The sentiment is not part of our judicial lexicon and courts of law ought not to manufacture sentimental and imaginative stories.
Now they also talked about altercation and bitterness. That is not what we went to court for. We didn’t go to court to say come and settle our differences. So, as I told you before, it is the court that is causing more confusion. If the court just did their duty, without sentiment we won’t have this problem. Do you think our uncle will like to disobey court orders?

And they also ordered us to go and work in harmony towards achieving this goal, if that harmony were to materialize who can make it materialise, is it the court or our uncle? If the poor man in all honesty and with no intention of disobeying the court order, now say s look forget about what the court says ‘I am your uncle and your father’s elder brother forget about what the court says. Please come together for my sake and for the sake of your late father let us work this out. Is he not in contempt of court?’ If he tells us not to follow court orders because the court has ordered us to go to arbitration and we must go to arbitration. So it is the court that is causing problems for us as far as I am concerned.

What do you miss most about your father?

It is his sense of humour. He had an excellent sense of humour. When I am looking for authority I go to him, when I am writing a brief. Once I give him the facts he immediately knew which case was applicable. However, that void has now been filled by computers. Nowadays, I can get my juniors to do a brief with their computers but the computers will not discuss with you. So, that human touch is not there. I also miss his advocacy. He was a very thorough advocate. He was a good teacher when it comes to law. As a matter of fact, you can only have a professional relationship with my father. I also remember whenever Professor Nwabueze comes to see him or Professor Kasumu. As soon as he sees them his face lights up. Professor Nwabueze was always a welcome visitor to the house because he made him happy. They didn’t discuss social life or things like that. They talked law and that is what impressed him. Professor Nwabueze knows nothing but the law. Chief Williams knew nothing but the law. The only difference is that one is a top academician and the other one was a top advocate. When you now combined the two together, they were a formidable union. That I miss about him.

What is your most nostalgic memory of him?

Let me say that there are two things. In court, the way he used legal arguments to destroy his opponent. For example, you take the ‘Hear Say’ principle. Hear say evidence is not admissible in law but Chief will not try to lecture you. I remember the case of Saraki and Kotoye. The proceedings are there. The other side had brought a French man as a witness who had been giving evidence for three whole days. In those days you don’t write your deposition. You come to court, toe to toe you give your evidence. So, the man at the conclusion of his evidence was telling the court that  Mr ….. told him, this and that and this is what he learned from the French man. So on the third day, he sat down after concluding his evidence and Chief Williams asked him just one question. He said ‘witness, can you confirm that everything you have been telling the court is what Mr. Francois told Mr. Jackson and what Mr. Jackson told you?’ ‘My lord’ he said in his French accent ‘I confirm’ and my dad said ‘No further questions.’
The law school students initially did not get it. Then when they got it they started clapping. The late  Justice Olusola Thomas –may his soul rest in peace-who was the judge said ‘I will clear the court, why are you clapping?’ The Judge himself started laughing. That was the only question that Chief Williams asked the witness and when the Judge came to write his ruling the court said that the evidence is inadmissible in law (laughs) because it is ‘hear say’. The other two juniors who were with Chief did not see where he was going. I had been writing and writing along with two other learned lawyers. I said ‘Papa why didn’t you tell us that was where you were going?’ he said ‘An elder does not show the young one everything until the end of the day.

That was his sense of humour and he was so profound. There was another instance when we were in the old Supreme Court when the Supreme Court was here in Lagos and Chief had been addressing the court on the principle of admissibility, the weight of evidence, and all the rest of it. So, when he finished his submission, he then sat on the chair and the chair simply collapsed. I had to help him up to sit on the next chair. The whole court was sympathising with him and instead of being ruffled; he got up again and said ‘my lord that is the example of the weight of evidence’ (laughs). There was another time in court he was making his submission.  He was perhaps,  the first lawyer ever to be granted the privilege of sitting down to address the court.

So, on this occasion, a certain lawyer, whose name I won’t mention, came into the courtroom and sat on the other side. He was always trying to compete or tease my dad. So he said ‘why don’t you stand up and address the court. Stand up and address the court!’ I think my father was a year or two older than him. I was not happy but the Judge said ‘he is over 80 and he has the right to sit down. That is the rule’. My father said; ‘My Lord I have an answer for that. When I stand up, I am taller than my learned friend and when I am seated, I am still taller than him. So I don’t know what his problem is’ (laughs). You know my father was six feet three inches tall and the guy was just over five feet.
So his sense of humour and his advocacy is something I  benefitted from greatly and I learned a lot from him.

What are your regrets?

Well, my regrets are that he didn’t put his house properly in order before he passed on. I know that if my mother had survived him, we would not have had any problem. Everybody would have known his position. Even a cousin of ours who feels that she has the right would not have dared to do some of the things that she has done. I won’t mention names. My mother was one of those people who believed that she should help the needy and those who are not as fortunate and generally any relations she happens to interact with. Most of such relations have shown gratitude and they have prospered in later years and I am happy for them.

But there is one or maybe two particular ones who feel that my parents have not done enough for them or as much for them as they have done for their children. But assuming that is the case I think it is only natural for you to give more to your own biological children than to relations no matter how close they may be. But then it is a lesson from which one could learn something so that whenever the opportunity comes along again one would do things differently and properly.

What are your happiest moments?

Well, my happiest moment in this profession was when my daughter became a lawyer. I don’t know which one to rate higher whether when my daughter became a lawyer or when I became a SAN. But I think it was when my daughter became a lawyer because being a SAN is not really a milestone for me. My father was already one, so it is no big deal for me and I won’t be the first in the family. My father just took it. He was pleased, he was satisfied but that was that. But when my daughter became a lawyer, I was the first in the family to have a daughter who became a lawyer but I am not the first in the family to have a child who is a lawyer because my father led me into it naturally. I was the first and his first son in his family to be a lawyer. So I cannot say I am the second to have a daughter who is a lawyer because he never had a daughter in the first place. That really is a great moment in my life. The first time in Nigeria’s legal history when three generations of lawyers will appear at the Supreme Court was when Chief, myself, and my daughter all appeared in the case of Okorodudu vs NDLEA before Hon. Justice ML Uwais CJN. Papa  also always mentioned that this was one of the happiest moments of his life

It is like becoming a lawyer runs in the family?

Let me shock you a bit. My grandfather, who is the father of Chief Williams, Akintola Williams, and late Bankole Williams, was a lawyer and he qualified in 1927. So, even my father was not doing anything new. He was a second-generation lawyer. I am the third generation and my daughter is the fourth generation by direct lineage. Again, my maternal grandfather was also a lawyer. My mother’s uncle was also a lawyer. Now, when you come to modern times, my mother produced two senior advocates out of three lawyers only one of us failed to make the grade of a SAN. My mother’s sister who is my aunt also has three lawyers and two of them are SAN’s. My aunt’s husband Akerele is also a SAN. So you can imagine that within our little family we have more Senior Advocates than some states in the Federal Republic. But that is our industry. We come from Abeokuta and as you may know, Abeokuta is one of the areas that were colonised by the British very early. I think the first missionary school was located there which has produced a long line of lawyers. The first Chief Justice of Nigeria Adetokunbo Ademola was a Prince in Abeokuta. The first judge Olumuyiwa  Jibowu was also from Abeokuta. Also the first laureate Prof. Wole Soyinka likes to describe himself as ‘Ijegba’ which is partly Egba and partly Ijebu. So we come from a community that treasures education and holds it dear to the heart. The Ekitis came later, but they concentrated in becoming professors. There is no family in Ekiti land where you will not find at least one professor.

(THISDAY)


Do you have an important success story, news, or opinion article to share with with us? Get in touch with us at publisher@thepodiummedia.com or ademolaakinbola@gmail.com Whatsapp +1 317 665 2180

Join our WhatsApp Group to receive news and other valuable information alerts on WhatsApp.


Share this story
Advertisements
jsay-school

Leave a Reply